Entitlement

"the face of God is the face that is before you: your friend, a stranger, whomever." - Joseph Campbell speaking of the Gnostic Message (via James Joyce)

There has been some awesome discussions going on at Joseph Campbells FaceBook page. Since my last post was so much work I may as well blog it, ;) here goes....




I read allot of interesting and stimulating ideas. Some ideas I agree with, some I don't, and others I don't quite understand. I reserve the right (my entitlement) to keep any opinions separate from my true self and to be able to change them at the slightest whim. Feel free to get pissed off at me if you feel i've misquoted you terribly or taken you too much out of context (let me know if it makes your day any better - getting pissed at me that is)

Quintin - "saying that 'we are all God' is nice and all, but it isn't realistic, and it confers a dangerous sense of entitlement"
I really loved the way you threw your gloves down and came out swinging. After reading the rest of your posts I still don't undertand what you mean by "unrealistic" to recognize the divine in another. Nor what is so dangerous about the resulting "entitlement"you refer to. To feel entitled means to strongly believe in (or at least be aware of) certain rights we are due. I very strongly feel entitled to pursue my destiny to it's full potential. Or not. I definitely do not wish to feel constrained by anything other than my own choice/laziness/fear. Assuming I have the courage to admit these limiting factors and not take the easier route of blaming you. I do not (will not) believe god speaks more clearly about me to anybody else. If he speaks to you I am sure he is talking about you, not me!! I choose these beliefs for now until I find something better. Talk to me tomorrow.

Mickey - "looking for some external saviour instead of realizing we can save ourselves"
But I don't wanna! Can't you do it for me? Isn't this the 21st century where every thing is spoon fed to me? </sarcasm> what I have learned from JC is that the hero's journey is a lonely one, and all the struggles (and answers) are found within. If we must kill our enemy we prefer it not to be ourselves. Why face the evil within when my neighbours are so obviously different (and therefore out to remake me in their image so I better get them before they get me). Defeat my enemy by making him my friend? Am I a coward?

Lori - "i don't think there's an intention to think in terms of entitlement. It's just the idea of 'being' he's referring to."
I would encourage an active intention of entitlement. You hold title and deed to your soul and your destiny and don't let anyone tell you different!

Stacy - "the scientific community is woefully behind when it comes to it comes to learning what has already been known for thousands of years and expressed through myths"
As far as I can tell, the only thing that has been known for thousands of years is that man has a tendency to start thinking he knows stuff (all sorts of 'facts') and that these mistaken beliefs (which are mistakenly labelled as knowledge) then cause all sorts of grief until eventually everything collapses and then it all starts over again. But I'm sure this time it's different.
"is dying really a big deal?"
To me it is. Next time you die be sure to let me know how it all works out for you.

Anthony - "your reflection 'only' sees you when you look into the mirror, and the same applies 'only' when you see someone. When you look into a mirror you do not see your reflection - your reflection sees you"
Beautiful. I love it

Stephanie - "you have no one to blame but yourself at your resulting hurt feeling"
Isn't it your fault for failing to meet my demands/expectations/desires? I wonder, if my only desire is for everything to be exactly the way it is, to be what it will be, will that desire still cause me to suffer?

Quintin - "at most they show a desire for an afterlife... This is the only life we know we have"
People really need to grasp this "fact" more fully. It is one of the very few facts of which I am aware. For those who disagree, give me everything you have and I shall repay you tenthousandfold in the afterlife - it's incredible how long people have been falling for that one.

Michael - "we use the vocabulary of science, psychology, and social science to translate unexplainable mysteries into terms we can understand."
The old curse of Babel. Language will always fail, since by it's nature it defines. How do you define the undefineable? I still have yet to hear a good explanation (non-technical) of air.

Matt - "they are handles for grasping vessels we imagine in front of us."
Beautiful. When we imagine something, are we creating something? Is creation a divine act?

Kori - "Quintin aught to quit JC because you don't get one single thing.... Higher consciousness exists - beyond opposites - and cannot be verified by science that is why we need mythology - it is the only way to get there."
You just gotta love absolute statements. Almost as much as being told "you're wrong. Go away." Guaranteed JC heard allot of that in his time. I would ask what lies beyond opposites? Instead of going beyond them, why not campout somewhere in between, or better yet embrace both sides - embrace the all.

Ralph - "the problem is to find the Godlike spirit in ourselves beneath all of our human flaws"
Ahh yes, the crux of the matter. Everything else is a mere trifle. I would say it is impossible to recognize the divine without looking through divine eyes. I'm exercizing my title on that belief, but I have no problem sharing. Nor do I care if nobody agrees.

Stephanie - "we only need to be still and listen.... I believe .... God is in each of us... Each of you is entitled to a different view"
A bit of editing left me with a statement I agree with fully. I love how stephanie qualifies her statements. What she says goes for me too. I know pretty much nothing other than that death is coming for me. Everything else is theory, belief and speculation (and lots of bs).

Quintin - "they had some similar ideas, except that Crowley was mad"
Right on! I don't disagree....

Kori - "do you think that JC believed in a soul or a god?"
I really don't see how you can say Quentin doesn't get it and then ask this question.
 "when we hit that new 'plane of vision' we are in the realm of seeing beyond this world into another.... Luke Skywalker - anyone who went on a spiritual hero journey... Every shaman is pointing us in the direction of our true potential"
I very much like the last part here. However, I would argue that it is not into another world we see, but how we have failed to see the world we have always been in (and still are, even now)

Rena - "when you decide on a religion like Christianity... you have closed yourself self off from [other paths]"
I agree with the sentiment here rather strongly, which gives me insights on myself to work with later. To conform to a religious following is for me a decision to forgoe the heroic journey. I am not saying this is a truth, but for me it is my truth. I feel I must find and define my own truth, and remain ever vigiliant that it is impermanent, and that I am unlikely to ever grasp it fully.

Ralph - "there are limits on what we can know"
"all the true heroic .. people who want to have an 'experience' - they push beyond all that is known... - and thus we have the same potential which we are not experiencing if we stay here."
Very well said. Recognizing (and accepting!) those limits, they extent of what we truly know, is the determining factor in how well we will do. Imagine accepting that we know nothing at all. At any (and all) given moment we have absolutley no idea what is in store for us (instead of always knowing everything). Every moment is a surprise. We look forward to this, always excited to experience every moment. When this is so every moment is heroic as we joyfully face and embrace the unknown - the face of God

Katherine - "simply what we were created to do.. living it is the hard part."
I have found that for myself life can be as complicated and difficult as I want to make it, or as simple and pleasant as I will allow it. I still force things too much, but I am learning.

Jessica - "to look upon God through the eyes of the Other and recognize oneself"
Truly beautiful words. We must be surprised for it to happen. And we invest so much nowadays and try so hard to avoid surprises. And like many things in life, they often meet our expectations. Believing surprises are nasty often makes it so.

That was a bit of work but I think it was worth it. Thank you for inspiring me to think about these things - and to then write about it.  Namaste wahe guru

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-- Sent from my palm Pre